Young professionals—and M&A professionals of all seasons—are told time and time again that M&A is all about who you know, but actually making meaningful connections that lead to real deals takes more than showing up and handing out business cards. J. Michael Fischer Jr., managing director at DBD Investment Bank and vice president of ACG New Jersey, joins the podcast to share how he builds and utilizes his network, how he works with founders to gain their trust, and how he gets the most ROI out of ACG.

This episode is brought to you by SRS Acquiom. Learn more at srsacquiom.com.

Read a transcript of the podcast below.

Middle Market Growth: Welcome to ACG’s Middle Market Growth. I’m your host, Carolyn Vallejo. Networking is a cornerstone of M&A, but building relationships that promote career growth and lead to actual deals takes far more than shaking hands and swapping business cards. In a hypercompetitive market, how do you become someone people want to do business with? Today, we’re speaking with J. Michael Fischer Jr., author, managing director at DBD Investment Bank, and vice president of ACG New Jersey. He’s here to discuss how he builds and utilizes his network, his unconventional path to investment banking, and how he gets the most ROI out of ACG. Michael, welcome to the podcast.

Michael Fischer: Thanks, Carolyn. It’s great to be on.

MMG: Can you start us off by giving us a brief overview of your roles at DBD and ACG New Jersey?

JMF: For sure. With DBD Investment Bank, I’m a managing director. We are an M&A advisory firm. I focus primarily on originating and leading relationships with founder-led and family-owned businesses, typically companies with around $3 million to $10 million of EBITDA. We help owners sell their businesses, raise capital, or figure out what the right next move is. My role really starts with getting in front of the right owners and earning their trust. From there, I stay very closely involved from the initial conversation and the engagement all the way through close. I’m the relationship lead. I’m the person that the owner calls. I understand the numbers, but my job is really to understand the person behind them and help guide them through one of the biggest decisions of their life. As far as ACG New Jersey is concerned, I currently serve as a vice president for the New Jersey chapter.

I’ve been nominated for the presidency role, which will be voted on in November. ACG is where a huge part of my professional life happens. It’s a community I’ve invested in for years and one that’s given a lot back to me. I co-chair our Corporate Growth Awards Conference, as well as our CEO and CFO Forum dinner series, where I host eight dinners a year with more than 20 middle-market CEOs and CFOs at each event. I never looked at ACG as a place to walk the room. I joined it because I wanted to be useful in that room. To me, that’s the whole game: show up, contribute, build relationships, and try to find ways to help people.

MMG: Just for a bit of fun, if you had to choose a walk-up song, what would it be?

JMF: My walk-up song would be “Mountain” by The Movement. I don’t know if anybody would know this band, but it’s one of those songs that just puts me in a good mood every time I hear it. I love the beat and the energy, and it always makes me smile. It’s a reggae rock song, so you can look it up, “Mountain” by The Movement.

MMG: Awesome. We love an original answer like that. Very good. We want to jump right into the main interview, and I want to start with your bona fides. I know you have multiple success stories of deals that you have landed through your ACG network, deals that have started through conversations within your ACG network. Can you share maybe your favorite anecdote of this?

JMF: I would say the easiest anecdote to share very quickly would be that my last two jobs came directly as a result of ACG New Jersey. As far as my favorite deal that landed through ACG, as I mentioned earlier, I host the CEO and CFO Forum dinner series. The beauty of these dinners is that we get together in a room, and it’s frowned upon to share business cards. So you just genuinely get to know people very well. One of our CEO attendees had been attending for probably two or three years. We got to know each other, and I was in commercial finance at the time. He said to me, after knowing each other for two or three years, “You know, Michael, I have a friend who owns a distribution business in Pennsylvania. They have a relationship with their existing bank, but the bank isn’t giving them an increase to their line of credit. Is this something that you’d be willing to look at?” And I said, “Absolutely.” So I drove out to Pennsylvania, and I met with the client. I saw what he was trying to do, and I said, “This is what I would tell the bank that you want, and I think they’ll give you the increase in the line of credit.” It’s funny because the client said, “Are you saying you don’t want my business?” And I said, “No, it’s not that I don’t want your business. I’d love your business, but I want to do the right thing for you. So why don’t you just do this? You’ll get your stuff done instead of going through the rigmarole of changing banks.” The client looked at me like, “Wow, thank you so much.” So I made a deposit in that relationship without getting anything back.

Fast-forward six months later, their existing bank dropped the ball again and called me up, and I was able to get them a $10 million line of credit, as well as a bunch of other ancillary bank products. So that would probably be one of my favorite stories that came out of ACG.

MMG: It’s such a great story, too, because it really reflects the human component to this and how important the face-to-face, human relationship is in doing business, dealmaking, and making connections. I think that’s a conversation that is so important, especially with all of the technological advancement, AI, and everything going on today.

JMF: Absolutely.

MMG: Now, you have some great stories of how deals or career growth can emerge in some unexpected ways through these face-to-face connections and human interaction. But I want to hear about your history and your past. Take me back. I know you came into this field in maybe an unconventional way. Can you tell me about what that looked like in the beginning and how you got to where you are now?

JMF: Yeah, absolutely. I guess this is one of my signature stories here. I graduated high school and had a scholarship to St. Joseph’s University in Philadelphia for food marketing. After my first year in college, I decided that I wanted to drop out and play in a rock band with all of my best friends. I chased that rock-and-roll dream for a good amount of time. When we got close to signing a record deal, I started to find out the ugly side of the music business and realized that I would need to literally be on the road for the rest of my life to be able to pay for my lifestyle. I always wanted to be a husband and a father, and that wouldn’t really work for me.

So I went back to college and started working at a bank as a teller. Within seven months, I became a customer service rep. Right around that time, in 2009, my father passed away pretty unexpectedly. It gave me that weird, “This is the first day of the rest of my life” feeling. I finished up college. I approached the senior lender of the bank and said, “Hey, I’d really like to work for you.” He made me a management trainee and commercial credit analyst. I worked through that and became a pretty senior-level middle-market banker here in New Jersey. I did really well and made a great living in banking, but I kept hitting this ceiling because I was really good at making connections, building relationships, and finding opportunities.

The bank said to me, “You’re really great at your job. You should be a manager.” And I said, “I don’t want to be a manager. I just want to do what I do.” Around March of 2024, I decided it was time for me to finally bet on myself. I was getting approached by a bunch of different investment banks based on my network and a lot of the things that I’d done. I had helped author and finance some roll-up strategies. I was always working with operating companies, so a lot of my relationships were at that weird inflection point where they were asking, “Do we want to grow? Do we want to sell?” And I said, “You know what? I’m going to try to do this investment banking thing.” I had an opportunity to join DBD. I did not go through the traditional analyst path.

But I’m happy to say that, 28 months later, I currently have nine live engagements. It turns out I came up through people, not through the typical track. I don’t have an Ivy League education and all that, but going through the school of hard knocks helped me get to where I am today.

MMG: “I came up through people.” I think that’s such a great quote and one that really emphasizes, as you mentioned, how it’s not just about the accolades, it’s not just about your education, and it’s not about a linear path. A lot of it is about making connections, who you meet, and what you can do with the situation that’s right in front of you. I think that’s a good lesson for a lot of maybe younger professionals in this space or ACG members who are newer to the association. I’m sure you get asked a lot by younger or newer professionals for tips on how to move forward, networking, et cetera. So I want to ask you: What are your tips for ACG members who want to maximize their networking skills and the networking opportunities that ACG is able to give them?

JMF: Absolutely. I’m happy to do that, but I want to comment on something that you said before. A lot of people tend to go to, “Hey, this would be great for younger professionals who are maybe just getting started in their career.” The one point that you made, and it might have been before we actually started recording, was that in a world where technical ability used to get you in the door, relationships are what keep you relevant in this new world. What I’m finding now is that a lot of professionals who used to be able to get paid and be valued by their company because of their technical skills are finding that those skills aren’t as important now. So a lot of people need to learn these skills, and maybe they haven’t had to learn them in a while.

Those are people who are in their 40s, 50s, and even 60s. The tips that I would give ACG members who really want to supercharge their networking are based on what I wrote about in my new book. I call it the RAIN method: rooms, authority, intimacy, and nurture. That’s my system for building relationships. The tips I would give you today are based on rooms. I always found that you need a big room. For me, that has been ACG. Don’t just attend an ACG event. Get really involved. The point isn’t to work the room. It’s to be seen consistently and to be useful. So show up with no agenda, show up on purpose regularly, join a committee, and you’ll start to build relationships that will go on for a lifetime.

Outside of that big room, I would say start to curate your own small rooms. For me, I like to host dinners of eight to 10 people, with curated intimacy. Recently, I did a concert outing because I’m a big music fan. I had 10 COIs, clients, and prospects go to a concert with me, and we tailgated ahead of time. That’s what I would call the small room that you can curate yourself. Finally, I would say the one-on-ones. Make sure you’re doing these one-on-ones on a regular basis. It’s a coffee or a call when there’s nothing to sell. This is when the trust actually starts to get built. So that would be my couple of recommendations. If you want one more bonus one, I can give you that, too.

When I was in banking, everybody always said lender liability: You have to worry about referrals you give out. The one thing that I do consistently is I give out three referrals. Something I think a lot about is called relationship equity. You can’t withdraw something from an account unless you’re making deposits on a regular basis. So for me, if somebody asks me for a recommendation for a CPA, I make an introduction to three different CPAs. By doing that on a consistent basis, you’re going to have all of this equity built up in your relationships. Then, all of a sudden, people are calling you all the time. They’re like, “Man, Michael always thinks of me.” Long answer, but I hope that’s helpful for the audience.

MMG: You mentioned earlier in your response something that I think is very important, which is that technical skills are no longer necessarily what get you noticed, get your foot in the door, or bring you success. It’s the people skills that are vital for professionals, new and seasoned. M&A has always been about people. It’s always been about the human connection, but in today’s environment, why are people skills so important? What’s going on in M&A and dealmaking today that makes this crucial?

JMF: I think the technical stuff is table stakes. Every bank can run a process. What a founder is actually deciding is, do I trust this person with the biggest financial moment of my life? That’s not a question of financial modeling. That’s a human question. We’re in a market right now where a lot of owners are emotional, and they’re cautious. There are rates, there’s uncertainty, and there’s a generation of people deciding whether they hold on or let go. In that environment, the advisor who wins isn’t the smartest one in the room. It’s the one who makes the founder feel heard and understood. M&A looks like a numbers business, but it’s really a trust business wearing numbers as a costume, if that makes sense.

MMG: Absolutely. That’s a great way to explain it. You lead me very well into my next question, which is about this idea of helping an owner make that massive decision, as you say, often the biggest financial decision of their lives, as to whether or not they want to sell, move on from the business, or stay in the position they’ve been in. You’ve worked with a lot of business owners and founders who are working through that. You’ve helped them make that decision. I’m curious whether you have noticed an increased willingness for owners to come to the table, or are some of these leaders, a lot of them retirement age, still holding on to the business?

JMF: That’s a really great question. I would say willingness to come to the table is up, but it’s still on their own terms. The demographic wave is real. A lot of founders are aging out, and they know it. But 2021 really spoiled some expectations. Some people are still anchored to those peak valuations that we saw. The thing that I’ve noticed that’s changed, and I’m actually happy with it, is owners are willing to have the conversation even if they’re not ready to sell. That conversation two years early is exactly the kind of relationship that I want. My whole thing is that the willingness isn’t about whether the person is ready to sell. It’s about whether they are ready to talk. That’s where my job gets started.

We’ve had a lot of great examples where we’ve been brought in, and somebody says, “Hey, I’m not ready yet, but I’d like to look at this and see if we could bring more value in.” We’ve actually been brought on a year before going to market with the company, and we’ve seen some significant improvement in valuation. So, yes, owners are definitely willing to sit down.

MMG: It’s interesting that you say it’s more appropriate to ask, “Are you willing to talk?” I imagine that the relationship and the conversations that owners are having are really a make-or-break moment as to whether or not they want to sell, move forward, or decide not to. Tell me a little bit about what makes the difference in outreach to a founder or business owner that makes that professional want to work with one specific person or one specific team. What is it about that outreach or that conversation that makes a business owner feel comfortable to start talking, as you say?

JMF: I think this comes back to a good story. I remember during the pandemic, when I was in banking, there were a lot of people who just sat on the sidelines and said, “Okay, we’ll wait to figure out where we go next from here.” I had a portfolio of clients that I would call. When you initially called them, they would say, “Is everything okay? Are you freezing my line of credit? What’s wrong?” It’s like, “No, no, no. I’m just calling to see how you are. How’s your family doing right now? What’s going on? Is anything keeping you up at night?” That same approach that I took during the pandemic is the same approach that I take now.

I really feel like the best deals are never really shopped. They happen because an owner already knows who they would call. That’s the whole game: being that person before they need to make the call. So what makes it you and not someone else? I was there early, before there was a transaction, when I had nothing to gain. We do a lot of free valuations for people. We try to be a helpful resource, and I would say we’re more educators than anything else. What I find that people really appreciate is that I’m not breathing down their neck to sign an engagement with me. I’m just trying to be a helpful resource throughout the whole process. I say to people all the time, “Look, you don’t have to use me. That’s fine. But use somebody because I want you to be protected in this.” People really appreciate that. For me, it’s always about giving first. It’s either an introduction, perspective, or a name, with no scoreboard. People just tend to come to me because of that. That’s what I would encourage listeners to try to do: Be the helpful resource, and people will call you.

MMG: That’s great advice. As our listeners well know by now, we love to close out our conversations by providing some actionable advice. My final question to you is this: If you could provide any final advice to professionals who want to improve their networking skills, make their networks work for them, and really improve and increase the quality and value of their people connections and their people skills, what would your advice be?

JMF: Absolutely. If there’s one phrase that I want everyone listening to walk away with, it is something that I call relationship equity. Think about your relationships like a bank account. You can’t expect to make a withdrawal from that account if you’ve never made any deposits. The three takeaways that I would leave you with are really three ways to consistently make those deposits without expecting anything in return. Number one would be: invest before you need to. Build the relationship with somebody when there’s nothing on the table: no deal, no ask, no agenda. That’s when people know that the relationship is real. Second would be: be useful, not interesting. Stop worrying so much about impressing people and focus on helping them. Make an introduction, share an idea, or open a door. The person who consistently gives first is the person that people remember.

Finally, I would say: play the long game on purpose. Opportunities that you close two years from now often start with relationships you’re building today. So be intentional about the rooms you’re in, the people you stay connected to, and the deposits that you’re making along the way. Networking isn’t something that you should be doing when you need business. It should be something that you’re doing all the time. It’s just the way that you show up. Finally, I gave you some points here that I think would be helpful. I do have a new book coming out called The Modern Day Rainmaker, which was inspired by ACG. It takes a lot of what we talked about today and puts it into a framework I call RAIN, which is rooms, authority, intimacy, and nurture.

At its core, it’s a playbook for building relationships, creating trust, and generating deal flow without constantly chasing it. So if anything we talked about resonated today, the book is the deeper dive version of it, and I’d love to have people purchase it when it comes out. I’m also building a keynote around the book, so I look forward to taking that message on the road and hopefully speaking at other ACG chapters and industry conferences. I really appreciate the opportunity, Carolyn.

MMG: Well, we really appreciate you joining the podcast. That is J. Michael Fischer Jr. Thank you again so much for joining us.

JMF: Thank you, Carolyn. Have a great day.

This transcript was prepared by a transcription service. This version may not be in its final form and may be updated.

The Middle Market Growth podcast is produced by the Association for Corporate Growth. To hear more interviews with middle-market influencers, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Soundcloud.